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Necro guide, removal of useful info
dude, why are you removing the most useful info I put into the Necro guide? Like where Necros can stock up on Water and Food. Why did you remove Neriak completely from the Vendors list? Obviously you have your own ideas what should be on the list and what not, I don't agree with it though. The info I added was what I needed most when coming to Antonica from Kunark. It's the most helpful for Necros stepping food on the hostile continent. So why remove it? Anubiz (talk) 14:22, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
Because I am in the middle of working on it, and you're disrupting my writing. I am removing it and adding it to my list of things to do. When you edit typos, things like that, I leave them. If you want me to put something on the list of things to add to the guide, please say so. When you edit it in, I am taking it as you telling me you want it added to the guide. So, I am putting it in queue to be added.
Everything that goes on this guide I must investigate and test for myself before putting it on something that bares my name. Everything on the guide is stuff I have personally tested for myself. If you go down my talk page, you'll even see that my Levant locations are personally tested, since I didn't want to make it identical to the Succor/Egress/Evacuate list that is on the Travel guide.
The contents of the merchants? It is a good idea. I like it. And when I get to it, I will investigate and put that information there if you are so willing to have me do so (and given you're editing my guide, I assume you are fine with that). Just like with the Levant thing, I need to test it for myself, and so it goes to the bottom of the queue of things to do.
I appreciate what you've posted, and those two other merchants, I am going to investigate them because they are a part of the guide construction I have queued up right now.
Lastly, you asked about why I removed Neriak: I removed it because I am in the process of testing a non-factioned at any place level 34 Iksar Necromancer with Call of Bones, and bringing them city to city to confirm with 100% certainty that they are safe in the city to vendor. Normal leveled characters will invariably change their faction in some way. Only a clean level 34 with Call of Bones can really provide data rigorous enough for me to want to put it onto my guide. And that is what I am doing now. The next set of additions to the vendor list will be the non-neutral ones, the ones I know of that need Call of Bones. Neriak is on that list and will be added then. I fast tracked the ogres in Feerrott since it seemed you wanted them added, and I didn't want you to think I was being hostile. It is just that I have a process I work through to add stuff to my guide. It takes time, but it will make it there.
If that bothers you, I am sorry, but that's how I write and expand on my writing.
- Ahhh, yeah. That makes sense. Uteunayr is the name of my first necromancer on this server, a Dark Elf. When I hit 60, I realized how good regeneration is, so I changed my main to an Iksar Necromancer instead. I just didn't change my wiki log in yet since this has all my editing history on it. All good! :)
Hi, I saw this page you made - have you seen the evacuate locations here? I compiled that list using some external website a while ago. I don't know for a fact that all of them are accurate on P99, but so far, evacuating on my wizard, they have all been accurate. I think Levant would probably go to the same locations as well. --Estu (talk) 17:57, 2 October 2013 (EDT)
They might conform to the same thing, and I haven't really tested with that guide, but when looking at others that are on other websites, I have found by and large conformity about 90% of the time, but certain points are totally off. For this reason, my main purpose is to make a list that I can say with 100% certainty, every single succor point is accurate to P99.
I just went and looked at the list you linked, and I examined some discrepancies:
The Linked list:
Blackburrow (-377, 7) Zone line to Qeynos Hills
Everfrost Peaks (3139, 629) Outside Halas gates
Blackburrow: (-158, 38) At the Qeynos Hills exit.
Everfrost Peaks: (3139, 682) Near the ramp up into Halas. Can see guards, but not in aggro range.
So I then went to Blackburrow page, and checked out the coordinates. The first number appears to be the Y axis, and the second the X (this is due simply to the orientation of the map). On the map, the link's location of -377, 7 for Blackburrow would place it off the map. My numbers -158, 38, would place it approximately at the zone line. The only zone line anywhere near a -350 is the Everfrost Peaks, and that's the other axis.
The difference between EverFrost Peaks is small, but I cannot honestly find a port ATM to go check it. I am certain that my numbers were recorded correctly, though.
It is little stuff like this that I have found in other people's lists that have encouraged me to make my own.
The differences in locations can be either due to different locations for Levant vs. Succor, or that my measures are simply stronger. Since I do not know with absolute certainty that Levant is different than Succor, I decided to craft my own list that is uniquely tested with Levant. It falls onto someone with Succor to do that.
I appreciate the concern for sure. I'd like to have a list that I could just use without worry, but every time I do, I end up surprised and slightly upset, lol.
I think it's safe to assume that the Druid, Wizard, and Necromancer evacuation spells all go to the same locations. Would you be OK with just updating the page I linked to with any discrepancies you find instead of having a separate page for Levant? It's a waste to have two separate pages describing the same thing. --Estu (talk) 14:22, 3 October 2013 (EDT)
I will gladly remove the page and incorporate it into my soloing and strategy guide if your concern is page clutter. They were separated because Levant locations are, in no real meaningful way, part of a Necromancer soloing and strategy guide. My goal, however, is to make all information necessary to Necromancers to be available in a place that Necromancers feel they should look. I have been repeatedly asked by fellow Necromancers about levant locations, this list being, by and large, not only faulty in spots, but also buried in a place Necromancers are not likely to look, I feel that a list should be provided in a place that Necromancer players will go. The aforementioned page has not done the trick, and I do not think it is necessarily a fair assumption when every list I find on Succor locations is distinct and different from Levant. That assumption is not one that I find fair.
Additionally, I am attempting to offer descriptions on the Necromancer version for all Levant locations that include a threat to the necromancer, something that wizards/druids will find superfluous.
Well, there are evil wizards around. Humans, gnomes, and of course dark elf wizards can all be evil. Maybe Erudites too? It would be reasonable to add safety suggestions to the list on the travel guide page. If people are having trouble finding it, you could add links to the travel guide page from the Levant spell page and/or your Necromancer guide. Does this sound reasonable? --Estu (talk) 16:08, 3 October 2013 (EDT)
Re: Re: Response
If you wish to go through and standardize that list, and you find that it is identical to the one I make for Levant, then certainly. But I see no issue with a list for necromancers for their spell specifically, when the data seems to indicate differences with the reported data from Succor. Diffusion of information is in no way needless, as it provides more avenues to see it. I do not see sufficient enough similarities between the locations listed for Succor and those for Levant for me to feel fine. Again, if you simply don't like extra pages, I'll collapse it into my guide, but I am making my own list since all the others are faulty, and 10/10 of those other lists are made by Succor, not Levant.
Re: Re: Response
I think maybe you're misunderstanding me. I'm saying that the reason the list currently on the wiki, in the travel guide, is faulty, is because it's based on non-classic data. I compiled that list from some website someone linked me, and I would not be surprised if it wasn't 100% accurate all the time. I would be VERY surprised if druid/wizard/necro evacuation spells went to different locations from each other on P99. In other words, I think the difference you're seeing is the P99 (your experience with Levant) versus wiki (the list I compiled) difference, not the Levant versus Abscond difference (which I doubt exists at all). This is why I suggest you update the pre-existing list instead of making your own new list. The concern is not about extra pages as such, but about duplicate data: there is no reason to have a second list that gives the same information as a pre-existing list.
If you really believe that Levant would take you to different locations than Abscond, I can log on to my wizard later and check a couple of the locations you've looked at. But again, it seems to me very likely that each zone simply has a single "safe location" stored that all of these different spells universally go to. --Estu (talk) 18:02, 3 October 2013 (EDT)
So I've confirmed that the guide you've written up corresponds to the preexisting one in the large majority of cases. I went to Blackburrow, where the two guides disagree, and found that Abscond (a wizard spell) takes me to the same location as you found in your guide. Would you please merge your guide into the travel guide's teleportation section and add appropriate links for visibility (e.g. to your necromancer guide, the Levant spell page, etc.) or give a compelling reason for me not to do it? --Estu (talk) 11:46, 5 October 2013 (EDT)
I have offered my reasons, and I find them sufficient to create my own list. I cannot test every zone on a wizard or druid, and I will not put my name on information that claims such a thing. If you want to go through and confirm your Wizard/Druid list to be in line with every discrepancy between it and my own, than by all means do that. if you want to ground up make your own list, by all means do that. If you want to make the assumption that my list is more accurate than the one you refer to, and you are willing to put your name on that information that you have not personally tested, than use mine as a source. The separate page has been removed since it has caused you to have some major issues, and I have incorporated it into my guide, of which I am going to change the name of to more accurately reflect what it is now.
I will continue to work to bring the best information to the necromancer section of this wiki as possible, for every aspect of the necromancer class that I can imagine. You can rip off of my list if you want, trusting that my records are flawless, but my list remains with my repository of knowledge. I will put my name on information that I have confirmed, and that I have tested. You can take that, but the truth of your list remains on your name, not mine.
Hi, I read (well, skimmed) your necromancer guide and I noticed it heavily emphasizes very slow EXP camps - one or two monsters on a six-minute spawn. Necromancers are capable of EXPing much faster than this by hitting up more populated camps or zones with a lot of wandering monsters. I was wondering if you would be against adding a note to this effect; clearly things like the bard diet are popular for some people, but other people would find them a big snoozefest, not to mention inefficient. I'm not saying go all-out and put up suggestions for faster EXP camps, but maybe make a note that the guide is for slow and reliable EXP rather than fast and efficient EXP. Also, no offense meant here, but I'm surprised that someone with an eye for min/maxing has no interest in min/maxing their EXP over time. If you care about rolling an Iksar making you a more efficient necromancer, why do you then advocate going after one monster every six minutes? Even a solo cleric can do that. --Estu (talk) 13:28, 18 September 2013 (EDT)
I'm a graduate student, and the vast majority of my time is spent reading well over 1000 pages a week, working on research, and writing papers to present at conferences. It is not that I am not interested in min/maxing EXP over time, it is that my time is limited, so bard diet, aviak guards, toll booth... These are camps that are very friendly to someone in my situation that wants to sit there idle, and look back for a minute or two every repop. I did not write down about other places because I don't have experience in other places, and any information I offer would be limited. Since it is my guide, I am not going to put bad information in the list.
I put a note at the beginning that this is not a speedrun guide.
I also believe saying my guide heavily emphasizes them is being a bit too rough. Of the guide, here's how I see it. I classify a slow camp as being one in which you have excess rest time above 100% mana/HP. It is a fast/regular camp if you can always have another pull up.
12-16 - Misty Storyswapper
24-29 - Cordelia Minster
29-31 - Travis Two-Tone/Dark Deathsinger/Drizda Tunesinger
34-37 - Toll Booth
16-24 - Kurns Tower
31-34 - Halfling Guards in Misty
37-46 - Specres
46-49 - Bloodgills
49-51 - Bloodgills
51-55 - Nobles
55-60 - Charasis Basement
Each of the bards cannot be killed more than once per respawn, and are not nearby other adds. Toll booth has nothing else near its level other than the 2 guards. So yes, for these, they are slow camps.
Kurns tower has a near endless stream of enemies. Halfling Guards at Misty, there are 3 single pulls, which, counting in running, will cap your mana regen. Spectres are a 16 minute repop of 8, so 1 kill every 2 minutes. It is just enough time that when starting, you can go around the isle, kill each spec, and the first spec will respawn when you're at full mana. Bloodgills may be a "slow camp" just because you can easily kill them, but that xp is sick. 1% a dark blue kill all the way to 51 is sick. Nobles can also be considered a "slow camp", but you have a double xp bonus in that zone, and there are 7 possible mobs (2 nobles, 1 upstairs noble, 1 Isabella, 1 guard captain, 2 bards), which will cap your mana potential.
Charasis is in no sense of the word a slow camp. That is one of the most mentally draining places you can go to.
So, I wouldn't say I heavily emphasize them, I just have them.
OK. I'd like to note, by the way, that it's very unlikely that High Keep has a double EXP modifier. There is no P99-accurate ZEM guide available publicly, and the ZEM guides that I've seen have all been very exaggerated compared to the actual experience I've had in-game. Also, what are you studying? --Estu (talk) 16:13, 19 September 2013 (EDT)
It is unlikely, yes, but the XP difference isn't minor... You can truly tell the difference between farming 2 blues on a 6 minute timer out of HHK, and within HHK. It is not a basic dungeon modifier. While it may not be precisely 2x, it may be 1.75, or even 2.25 (I don't claim any calculated knowledge on this), it is a significant modifier that justifies the camp spot.
I study political science, specifically in comparative institutional arrangements and their domestic and international effects.
Necro Class Page
Very nice additions to Necromancer, I hope you have similar plans for the other classes :)
--Ravhin 22:46, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
I might, but it will be a long ways in the future. I am working on this because I have one 60 Necro, and another at 54, with one being a DE and one being an Iksar, and I feel the wiki did not adequately live up to what the class truly is in its current state in the game. I don't really have any expertise in other classes to update other wikis. :(
However, once I finish my Iksar Necro, I will be working on either an Enchanter or Shaman, so I might do one of those.
Pre Planar Armor Page
What exactly is wrong when you try to edit it? Many people have, and it works fine for me. Also, did you not see it "included" into the Necromancer page (with the LSTH command)? That looked fine to me. --Ravhin (talk) 22:21, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
My apologies for my lack of knowledge on how to properly respond other than editing these on...
But basically, everytime I tried to simple coalesce the two lists... Because honestly there is no reason for 2 lists of Necro droppable gear... The page simply refused to update for me. If you want to use the new coalesced list on the Necro page, edit the page in, and then do that line of code that makes the necro page draw it from the page you run, awesome. I just don't see the reason for two lists of stuff.