Difference between revisions of "Rulings"

The staff does not #bury corpses just because there are "corpsed" items on them. We will not, however, summon any corpses that have rotted with said item(s).

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The person coming to take the camp had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

So I've spent literally hundreds of hours killing Hill Giants and the rule of the land was always HGs are FTE. Today when I mentioned that to someone, he said they are not and there is no where in the rules or forums that say they are. I looked myself to prove him wrong and came up with nothing.

So, did I float along these past years on some fluke that everyone who happened to be around me considered them FTE? Like I put up some shit with such as a monk killing every single HG all afternoon because he could engage quicker than me for some reason. But I didn't complain because I adamantly believed they were FTE. Did I do this for nothing?

TT cycles have always been FTE Quillmane is weird because previously it's depended on which GM you end up talking to (like a lot of things...), but the most common response has been: if you have people at all 3 spawn locations, with a 4th killing PHs, then you can claim it as "camped." if you're soloing it, it becomes FTE. makes very little sense logically, but there it is.

You've just described player convention camps vs. GM enforced camps.

When the staff enforces camp rules, their goal is to force players to share scarce resources. Thus, the rules work towards that goal, and outside of dungeons: [quoting another player] "you can only camp 1 spawn point in that zone."

That's it: you and whoever you are competing with get 1 spawn point each, and everything else you both have to FTE (ie. you have to be the "first to engage" the monster and it becomes your's). And this is only when someone else shows up; before that you can camp as much as you want.

Inside dungeons you can potentially camp a single "camp" (typically a single room) instead of just 1 spawn point, but again the focus is on forcing players to share the content as much as possible. This is why Crypt in Seb is commonly considered a single camp by players, but if pressed the staff will let individual players camp individual rooms in it.

And that leads us to player-defined camps, which instead are focused on creating a group of mobs that a single player or group can kill within the zone's respawn time. For instance, a single player can solo the LFay Sisters (or a lot of the mobs around Grachnist, or a lot of Bloodgills ... or even all four rooms of the Crypt) in the time it takes for them to respawn, so all of those places are commonly considered a single camp by players.

IF a player wants they can ask the GMs to force a player to share the Sister spawns, in violation of the player defined camp. The staff will back them on this, because it's an outdoor zone and you can only have one spawn point in an outdoor zone ... but they will strongly encourage players to respect the player-defined camp first.

From their perspective, both parties would probably be happier if player #1 could just keep doing all the Sisters, and player #2 went to a different area. But since the server rules force sharing whenever two or more players both want those resources, they will enforce splitting Sisters if a player really wants (server rules trump player-defined camps). Some people believe this sort of thing will happen on Green, because so many players will be competing for popular camps like Sisters.

And of course all of the above is now covered on http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules

I recently started to camp Alice 4 in PoM after not going there for a few years. A few years ago, 22 and Brenn/Grenn were the only 2 thrones dropper camp. . Due to some infamous like Svenn, Lunatick and others, those were considered 2 separated camps cause you didnt had line of sight on both camps. Now with the addition to Glonk/Grink is it now 4 camps?

I tried to avoid being a dick so far and claiming a camp while the the actual camper is away killing another mob. So, I would like to know if theres a ruling possible to be made there. Usually Brenn/Grenn is main room and if the farmer at least pull them all there it could avoid some problems, cause the dude sometimes leave that room for 15mins killing other PHs then gets back and consider it his camp and some drama may follow.

Anyway, I was wondering if you could make a ruling here Menden, it would be appreciated. Thanks

Pretty good, here's how we expect players to behave when it comes to camps.

If a player/group is holding multiple camps in a zone, that's fine as long as no one else wants them. As soon as another player/group wants one the camps the holder gets the option which single camp they prefer. The new player/group gets to pick their camp and the rest become FTE unless both players/groups work out a deal to split them up. But players must communicate in some fashion so there is no conflict. So, what Loramin said was pretty darn accurate.

A more specific situation that comes up often is Bards and Nobles in hhk, many, many players consider this one camp. But based on the guidelines above, this is a dungeon type zone. So LOS/Agro guidelines come into play even though they are fairly close to eachother. So if a player is holding both and another player shows up, the original player needs to pick one.

Sirken always told me, camp in the room that has the target you want.

The recent call that involved DiogenesThaDogg never felt 100% right to me, a lot of arguments could be made for FTE or campable. I compared VT/VD to Hadden and SF, but Llandris made a very compelling argument which I'll list below.

I brought the topic up with other Senior Staff and we combed through countless past calls relating to these two spawns. The overwhelming majority is that it's FTE, not campable.

I put non-raid, single target, no PH spawns into two categories.

1. Campable, but must keep guards clear. Sir Lucan Drusella Sathir

2. Campable, but must get FTE within a reasonable amount of time. Hadden Stormfeather

I originally put VT/VD into this category but because they are generally killed with 2+ players, this makes it really hard.

Quote: Llandris: A player "camping" must have friends with characters camped near by or get players mobilized to this remote zone pretty quickly. Or if it was a solo, a skilled enchanter would have to abandon the camp to grab a pet. As we see it this goes against the "stalling" or "kill within a reasonable amount of time" guideline we have stated countless times for other camps. So I can understand the confusion among players(and staff apparently).

So, we're making this official. A third category.

3. FTE, let the race begin. Verina Tomb Vessel Drozlin

I'll see if I can talk Nilbog/Rogean into putting a FTE emote on these two mobs which would make it pretty clear what kind of encounter this is and stop any confusion that may come up in the future.

I apologize for any confusion I may have caused, but going forward you have this post to go on as a concrete guideline backed up by the Server GM and other Senior Staff.

If anyone has shared the screenshot that DiogeneThaDogg has posted, please remove it or edit the post stating the call has been reversed.

Hadden is campable.

Just because you have the last time of death and login does not mean that you automatically get the camp. If someone is there you should use common sense and see if they are camping Hadden. If they are, then move along and find something else to do. You are free to check back later to see if the camp is open. This is the same as most other camps in outdoor open areas.

In regards to AFK, you are allowed to go AFK for a reasonable amount of time in between spawns as long as you are there when the MOB spawns.

Finally, a word on FTE and camp disputes. When camp disputes are petitioned we are seldom presented with hard evidence. Essentially these are he said she said type petitions. More often than not, staff becomes involved after the fact. This means we are having to weigh the stories of the stakeholders along with any evidence. Server logs do often come into play. If a player or group is flagged for kill stealing it can muddy the waters.

So for lucan you need to be not afk and actively killing the guards in his room (or an aftermath will come and take the camp from you) but for stormfeather you can afk flop right up until spawn happens and nobody else can contest the camp...

Can we get some consistency with the server rules anytime? Thanks!

Quoting Menden "Selling SF loot rights, this is a douche move, I will suspend you for it under PNP."

So. Damn. Convoluted. The camp is intimidating because of the time involved, the mixed up rules...and now I find out loot rights are illegal to sell?

Cue the losing trombone sound from Price is Right.

as far as dungeons go, they are made up by camps. no person or group is allowed to own more than one camp (unless theres no other players around contesting the zone/camp). so if you are in Crushbone, or Mistmoore, or Unrest, or any dungeon, and a PLer is claiming more than one camp, the PLer has to give up one camp (as chosen by the person that owned both). if the PLer refuses to give up one of his multiple camps, you should /petition in game and then take a camp.

as far as swarm kiting bards, some earlier poster hit the nail on the head. the problem isnt that bards round up a hundred mobs; the problem is that it TAKES SO LONG to round up and then kite down the mobs, and as previously mentioned, can prevent anyone else from seeing a pop for over an hour. ive seen this in OoT, DL, and OT entirely too often, and i have told players repeatedly that if you can not find a mob because some one is kiting more than 4 of them, feel free to peel one off. no staff member is going to give a player grief for peeling 1 mob off a bard thats kiting an entire zone (or an entire island in the OoT situations).

What she said was that we're not going to give you obnoxious players the benefit of the doubt when no one officially witnessed the alleged "pathing bug" happen. Dying to a pathing bug at seb scarabs would definitely be the first time it's been heard of. Rough translation for the simple: It's a bullshit story to retake a camp lost to a pull failure. There is no grace period to retake a camp, except on server reboots. Guess what, the server didn't reboot. If you can't keep up with the conversation, you shouldn't join in at all.

Seb is a dungeon type zone.

Crypt is 4 camps, we've ruled this way on both servers for a very long time.

Is it possible to change your Deity?

Programs that parse the log file are fine, as long as they do not do any type of automatic control/response/manipulation/macro on your character in place of manual control.

Drusella Sathir

This is not a raid mob nor is it a high-value target. It just made sense to put the specific rules of this camp here.

Additional Rule Consideration:

Killing the hallway pather is how a person(s) claims the camp. Camp holders are required to maintain a presence at the camp, meaning they must keep the camp clear if someone else who is physically there, is at their keyboard, and ready to take over, also wants the camp. If the person(s) claiming the camp are unable to clear the golems and the pather, they must forfeit the camp to the other party.

Greetings, Fellow Norrathians!

Wanted to share a couple rule updates we'll be making. As I shared in my intro post, one of my beliefs is that we need to simplify and clarify the ruleset on P99. You shouldn't need an elf-law degree to be able to play here.

While I was referencing raiding in that post, there are a couple of rules updates I wanted to share regarding group content.

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