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Hey, lots of interesting ideas for the item pages. I am moving it here for now and replacing it with the current "template" for items. I am definitely open to improving this and adding some of the elements you have on this page, but let's think more about them first (and how we would update all existing item pages to such a new format). --[[User:Ravhin|Ravhin]] 15:55, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 
Hey, lots of interesting ideas for the item pages. I am moving it here for now and replacing it with the current "template" for items. I am definitely open to improving this and adding some of the elements you have on this page, but let's think more about them first (and how we would update all existing item pages to such a new format). --[[User:Ravhin|Ravhin]] 15:55, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
  
== Proposed Item Page Changes ==
+
== Adding Merchants ==
  
''Sorry about the UNIQ... corruption of the section names, it will go away once we delete the AuctionTracker from this page.''
+
Hey, I fixed a bug in the merchant scraper which was causing all the item lists to be "None." Now they are put in correctly.
  
Thanks for writing up your thoughts, I agree with most of them. Let's separate out style from content first though.
+
If you add a merchant whose item list is empty you shouldn't just add it, at least add a note that you don't yet know what is sold, otherwise people might be confused that the merchant actually sells nothing.
  
=== Content ===
+
Also I think some things you're adding (like Scribe Biddlegorb‎ which I deleted) don't actually exist on p99? I realize you aren't going around to all these things you're adding, and thats ok, but it is important to be careful to only add classic content. Perhaps stick to areas you are familiar with or exploring currently with your character.
  
In particular, all of your points under "lacking information" are already considered. For example: [[Short Beer]].
+
Otherwise, thanks for all the additions! Nice to fill in lots of the missing pages. --[[User:Ravhin|Ravhin]] 07:58, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
  
Currently, the categories of information included with [[Template:Itempage]] are:
+
== Phenomenal ==
  
* Notes (can be anything)
+
Whenever I look at the recent changes your submissions are ubiquitous, cheers!
* Drops from which mobs
+
* Related to/used in which quests
+
* Player crafted (which tradeskill, trivial)
+
* Used in player tradeskils (which tradeskills)
+
* Foraged by players (in which zones)
+
* Sold by merchants (name,zone,location)
+
* Book contents (if a book)
+
  
Is there something missing from this list that you can think of that would be useful?
+
== DynamicZoneList ==
  
=== Style ===
+
Hey, all your additions encouraged me to make a new extension which was in the plan the whole time. Now it may actually be interesting as more content is added.
  
1. Lack of section setup (lack of "edit" buttons on each section).
+
You can see it at the bottom of [[Ak'Anon]]. Let me know if you have any more ideas or suggestions!
  
I agree, this is a technical difficulty I ran into with using a template. In fact I disabled the "edit button on each section" for item pages because clicking it leads you nowhere useful and can making editing extremely frustrating. For example, I did not remove it on mob pages, see [[Ambassador DVinn]] and what happens if you try to edit the Description (it takes you in to edit the template). If you know of a solution for this I will fix it.
+
The point is to include a complete list of quests, NPCs, and items for each zone (just like allakhazam) - the lists are generated automatically based on pages on the wiki which have the right categories.
  
Reference: [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help_talk:Templates#Included_Titles_Cannot_Be_Edited_by_Subsection]
+
I am going to run a script to add zone categories to all items, then I will finish the item part, and then add it to more zones. --[[User:Ravhin|Ravhin]] 05:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
  
Also, the fact that it is "template code" instead of just wiki markup that people may be more familiar with is unfortunate. But I don't know how to use templates without doing it this way? If you have some reference I am happy to look into it.
+
== Discussion Page ==
  
2. Not including sections for which there is no information.
+
I moved a lot of stuff from talk pages and organized it some on [[Help talk:Contents]]. We can use that in the future for discussions. --[[User:Ravhin|Ravhin]] 16:10, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
  
For example, [[Small Bronze Helm]] does not include a "sold by merchants" section at all because it is not sold by merchants. I agree it would make things look more consistent if the same section were present on every page, but then again some are almost always mutually exclusive - what is sold is rarely dropped by mobs, for instance. Furthermore, the classic Allakhazam approach has been what we have used here, not including sections that are "empty", for instance [http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=14540] does not have any mention of merchants or quests.
+
----
  
On this point I'm not sure which is better to be honest.
+
Glad to see you back man. The wiki is really looking good these days. Feel free to start any discussions for changes on [[Help talk:Contents]] - you know I worked with you to change the item pages a bit, etc. Let me explain why I seem to delete or change lots of things: With you adding so much content one of the main things I am trying to do is keep it accurate, complete, consistent, even "compact" / "neat". I try to keep all of the maintenance lists at a minimum (they should all be empty), stuff like:
  
3. Auction pricing too big.
+
* [[Special:BrokenRedirects]]
 +
* [[Special:DeadendPages]]
 +
* [[Special:DoubleRedirects]]
 +
* [[Special:LonelyPages]]
 +
* [[Special:UnusedTemplates]]
  
I designed this with a widescreen (1920) screen in mind, in which case it looks good I think. I agree on a (1680) screen it is a bit big. Make it 100px less wide?
+
In terms of a "big goal", what I am trying to do is get this list to absolutely zero: '''[[Special:WantedPages]]'''. When I started working on the wiki that page got up to ~1000 then I got it down to only a few hundred (by both adding content and making sure that all the pages were properly linked up and not having bad links, inconsistent links, etc). Now that page is up to '''4115'''! So when I delete or condense things I am just trying to clean up that list, working towards our goal here of making this wiki complete. --[[User:Ravhin|Ravhin]] 01:32, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
  
4. Double column.
+
== Multi-Pages ==
  
I agree if we are including enough sections.
+
Hey I know you were interested in pages to handle mobs (or items) with the same name. What do you think about [[http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Shaped_Ashwood_Recurve_Bow]]? It's about as simple an approach as possible, where for each one you just add some sort of qualifier in parenthesis, e.g. "an orc pawn (East Commonlands)" "an orc pawn (Greater Faydark)".
  
5. "Make a new page" button.
+
Not that I'm suggesting we go crazy and get into so much detail right now, but it might be nice to have a rule in place. --[[User:Ravhin|Ravhin]] 02:18, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 
+
Is there a link to a wiki showing how this would work? In general I agree with the philosophy [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page here] which states, in short, that the best to create a new page is to first create a "red" link to it, because a page that isn't linked to is pointless.
+
 
+
=== Example ===
+
 
+
Just a quick try at what the current item page for [[Small Bronze Helm]] might look like including all categories.
+
 
+
<div style='margin:20px;padding:10px;border:1px dashed #c99;'>
+
{{Itembox
+
|itemname    = Small Bronze Helm
+
|lucy_img_ID = 550
+
|statsblock  =
+
Slot: HEAD<br>
+
AC: 10<br>
+
WT: 5.6  Size: SMALL<br>
+
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD<br>
+
Race: ELF HIE DEF DWF HFL GNM<br>
+
Slot 1, Type 7 (General: Group)<br>
+
}}
+
 
+
Part of the ''small'' [[Bronze Armor]] set.
+
 
+
== Drops From ==
+
 
+
{| width="60%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2"
+
|- style="background:#ffdead;"
+
! width="35%" |Name
+
! width="15%" |Level
+
! width="60%" |Zone
+
|- style="background:#e3e6ff;" valign="top"
+
| [[a ghastish ancille]]
+
| 40
+
| [[Mistmoore Castle]]
+
|- style="background:#e3e6ff;" valign="top"
+
| [[a ghoulish ancille]]
+
| 45
+
| [[Mistmoore Castle]]
+
|- style="background:#e3e6ff;" valign="top"
+
| [[a hemo enologist]]
+
| 40
+
| [[Mistmoore Castle]]
+
|- style="background:#e3e6ff;" valign="top"
+
| [[a hemo enologist]]
+
| 37
+
| [[Mistmoore Castle]]
+
|- style="background:#e3e6ff;" valign="top"
+
| [[a vampiric ancille]]
+
| 37
+
| [[Mistmoore Castle]]
+
|- style="background:#e3e6ff;" valign="top"
+
| [[an ancille cook]]
+
| 30
+
| [[Mistmoore Castle]]
+
|- style="background:#e3e6ff;" valign="top"
+
| [[a barbed bone skeleton]]
+
| 27
+
| [[The Estate of Unrest]]
+
|- style="background:#e3e6ff;" valign="top"
+
| [[a greater dark bone]]
+
| 30
+
| [[The Estate of Unrest]]
+
|- style="background:#e3e6ff;" valign="top"
+
| [[an undead knight of Unrest]]
+
| 30
+
| [[The Estate of Unrest]]
+
|- style="background:#e3e6ff;" valign="top"
+
| [[a barbed bone skeleton]]
+
| 33
+
| [[Rathe Mountains]]
+
|}
+
 
+
== Sold By ==
+
{| class="eoTable3 sortable" style='width:60%;'
+
! Zone || Merchant Name || Area || Location
+
{{ItemWhereRow  | [[Ak'Anon]]                      | [[a clockwork barkeep]]      | Bank          | (1252, -946) }}
+
{{ItemWhereRow  | [[Cabilis|East Cabilis]]          | [[Klok Sass]]                | Cleric Guild  | (667, -38) }}
+
{{ItemWhereRow  | [[West Commonlands]]              | [[Innkeep Seke]]              | Inn #2              | (-104, 465) }}
+
{{ItemWhereRow  | [[West Commonlands]]              | [[Innkeep Roster]]            | Inn #3              | (-149, 452) }}
+
{{ItemWhereRow  | [[West Commonlands]]              | [[Innkeep Redthorn]]          | Map #6              | (-401, 2763) }}
+
{{ItemWhereRow  | [[West Commonlands]]              | [[Innkeep Olissa]]            | Bank 2nd Floor      | (-384, 2714) }}
+
|}
+
 
+
== <span class='esec'>Related Quests</span> ==
+
* <span class='esec'>This item has no related quests.</span>
+
 
+
== <span class='esec'>Player Crafted</span> ==
+
* <span class='esec'>This item is not crafted by players.</span>
+
 
+
== <span class='esec'>Tradeskill Recipes</span> ==
+
* <span class='esec'>This item is not used in player tradeskills.</span>
+
 
+
== <span class='esec'>Foraged In</span> ==
+
* <span class='esec'>This item cannot be foraged.</span>
+
 
+
</div>
+
 
+
== Item Page Changes ==
+
 
+
I changed the ItemPage template so that the categories always appear and are slightly grayed out if they are "empty."
+
 
+
I changed the AuctionTracker from 600px wide to 500px so it's not quite so big.
+
 
+
Also the tables for the "Drops From" section just like the "Sold By" section - I agree when it drops from lots of mobs but usually (like [[Runed Falchion]]) items drop from only one mob in one zone...
+
 
+
--[[User:Ravhin|Ravhin]] 17:58, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
+

Latest revision as of 02:18, 13 February 2012

Contents

Item Page

Hey, lots of interesting ideas for the item pages. I am moving it here for now and replacing it with the current "template" for items. I am definitely open to improving this and adding some of the elements you have on this page, but let's think more about them first (and how we would update all existing item pages to such a new format). --Ravhin 15:55, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Adding Merchants

Hey, I fixed a bug in the merchant scraper which was causing all the item lists to be "None." Now they are put in correctly.

If you add a merchant whose item list is empty you shouldn't just add it, at least add a note that you don't yet know what is sold, otherwise people might be confused that the merchant actually sells nothing.

Also I think some things you're adding (like Scribe Biddlegorb‎ which I deleted) don't actually exist on p99? I realize you aren't going around to all these things you're adding, and thats ok, but it is important to be careful to only add classic content. Perhaps stick to areas you are familiar with or exploring currently with your character.

Otherwise, thanks for all the additions! Nice to fill in lots of the missing pages. --Ravhin 07:58, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Phenomenal

Whenever I look at the recent changes your submissions are ubiquitous, cheers!

DynamicZoneList

Hey, all your additions encouraged me to make a new extension which was in the plan the whole time. Now it may actually be interesting as more content is added.

You can see it at the bottom of Ak'Anon. Let me know if you have any more ideas or suggestions!

The point is to include a complete list of quests, NPCs, and items for each zone (just like allakhazam) - the lists are generated automatically based on pages on the wiki which have the right categories.

I am going to run a script to add zone categories to all items, then I will finish the item part, and then add it to more zones. --Ravhin 05:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Discussion Page

I moved a lot of stuff from talk pages and organized it some on Help talk:Contents. We can use that in the future for discussions. --Ravhin 16:10, 27 January 2012 (UTC)


Glad to see you back man. The wiki is really looking good these days. Feel free to start any discussions for changes on Help talk:Contents - you know I worked with you to change the item pages a bit, etc. Let me explain why I seem to delete or change lots of things: With you adding so much content one of the main things I am trying to do is keep it accurate, complete, consistent, even "compact" / "neat". I try to keep all of the maintenance lists at a minimum (they should all be empty), stuff like:

In terms of a "big goal", what I am trying to do is get this list to absolutely zero: Special:WantedPages. When I started working on the wiki that page got up to ~1000 then I got it down to only a few hundred (by both adding content and making sure that all the pages were properly linked up and not having bad links, inconsistent links, etc). Now that page is up to 4115! So when I delete or condense things I am just trying to clean up that list, working towards our goal here of making this wiki complete. --Ravhin 01:32, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Multi-Pages

Hey I know you were interested in pages to handle mobs (or items) with the same name. What do you think about [[1]]? It's about as simple an approach as possible, where for each one you just add some sort of qualifier in parenthesis, e.g. "an orc pawn (East Commonlands)" "an orc pawn (Greater Faydark)".

Not that I'm suggesting we go crazy and get into so much detail right now, but it might be nice to have a rule in place. --Ravhin 02:18, 13 February 2012 (UTC)